Tug Forum

Specialist Types Of Tug Boat => Classic Diesel Tugs => : doonie November 18, 2017, 16:25:50

: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:25:50
I think I'll call it the "Lady Marilyn". That'll get me brownie points at home and it won't be the Klimek so I'll be able to build in a front movy thing, the correct name of which has temporarily escaped my tiny old mind, and a Kort nozzle on the back. I'm building a Tug because I want a boat with a front movy thing and a Kort. Every body gotta have a reason ay?

The Lady Marilyn is going to be electric powered and RC, of course.  So Iíll need an idea of how many revs a motor should do, what size and type of motor and what size prop. Iíd like to have built most of that in before starting on the planking. Iíd like to put a bow thruster in (I've remembered what it is) because I havenít built a ship with a bow thruster in it yet. Iíll need some advice and info there too please.
Iíve got a laser cutter, a heap of free 4 mm ply and a pile of software so Iím managing to get some nc code to cut stuff out. The platform for the laser cutter is only A3 so bits are going to have to be joined together. I made the size of it to whatever I can get onto an A3 sheet. 
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:30:01
The keel has worked out to 1245 mm long tip to tail and the boat about 320 mm wide, ish. Dunno what that would be as a scale, hoping somebody can tell me.
Iíve made a start then it got hot so Iíve stayed out of the shed for a while.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:32:33
Got a liddle more done but it is getting hot again so I've had to stop. I've turned it upside down to get all the frames in the right plane with regard to the keel. I'm thinking some super glue to tack them in place then turn it right way up so that I can get the keel dead straight. I was also thinking of laser cutting a pile of dead square 45 degree gussets to super glue in near the keel to get all the frames square. Then I suppose I'll have to machine up some goes around the edges material (whatever they may be called) and slowly and carefully pull it all straight. Any suggestions would be welcome.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:33:46
I have discovered some stuff.  Converting the plans to nc code has an effect. For example, the total width of the three main frames were different. Not by much but by a bit so I had to use the size conversion doodad to bring them all to the same size. OK, mental note, check everything. Also, when the laser cuts them out, they don't come out to the size you input them at. For example, those three main frames which should all be the same started life as 312 mm wide but at the completion of cutting were 308 mm wide. Doesn't matter of course because every single laser cut piece will be coming out with the same percentage loss. You have to allow for the thickness of the cut which I guess is shared by both the piece being cut out and the bit left over. Pretty minimal but it is there.
Also, the bits designed by whoever aren't necessarily correct. I had to re cut a couple of frames after making adjustments in the cad program. Once again, not a biggy but one needs to be on one's toes. I have cut a heap of right angle gussets to go in beside the frame and the keel just to square the frames up. Probably not necessary for strength but helps to keep things in place when gluing up the next step.
The frames are all in now and it's time to make the stuff that goes in the slots around the edges. Anybody have a name for that, apart from small sticks?
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:36:11
We continue, slowly. Just coming into summer here so the days get hot quick and bloody hot in my tin shed. I'm ready to start planking. I've set the hull up on this liddle addition to the set out board. As you can see, it allows me to get at everything easily and right there in front of me. This'll be the third hull I've planked like this and it goes well, usually. I think I've figured out why I have so many UFOs, I like making hulls. The first pic is my temporarily stopped 40 foot gentleman's Racer. I planked it like the MTBs of old, at forty five degrees, just for the helluvit.
The next two are the hull frame in position 1
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:39:34
And this is where I am today. I've got a few cedar ship lap planks somebody gave me. Been saving them for years cos I always knew there'd be a job for them eventually. Now it'll be dust mask, ear plugs and dust sucker upper.
Welp, I got about thirty planks cut plus a few odd ones before it got hot. I reckon I'll cut fifty and if there's any left over, so be it. Does anybody have a plan of a jig to cut little planks on an angle. I reckon I'll need a few smaller (not as wide) planks cut on an angle each side to go around the bend in the hull. Tomorrow morning I'll finish cutting and start sanding. Then it'll be plinketty plank time.
By the way, I measured the spot for a prop and reckon I could get a four inch Kort in there. Any suggestions re how many revs for a prop like that. I think I saw one with a pitch of about 5.1 inches. Also what size motor to drive that and what gearing would be best?
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 18, 2017, 16:43:11
Ahh. Revision reveals all. Here is the Gentleman's Racer pic I mentioned some time ago.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: model tugman November 18, 2017, 23:43:43
Welcome Donnie, you donít hang about do you?  Looking good well done.
Geo.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: sea monkey November 19, 2017, 11:49:25
This is a useful little app that my son created a few years ago. It is a scale converter.
It will help find a scale for the length of your hull.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 19, 2017, 14:09:42
Thank you. That is awesome. I'll have a fiddle with that soon, it's only just 9 am and almost too hot to stay in the shed. I've cut up 50 planks and a few for odds and sods which I'll sand tomorrow if I get up early enough before the heat comes. I've also made a start on a prototype edge angle trimmer thingy for the band saw which I'll put together later.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 19, 2017, 14:13:22
The cat doesn't mind the heat, in fact she positively loves it.
Here's a motor I found in my tin of motors. 't's the biggest one in the tin. Probably an 18 volter out of a power tool. 12 volts will slow it down plus I'm working on a pulley reduction system.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: 2tugboats November 19, 2017, 16:12:35
Well Doonie, you have captured the attention of many here with your "tugboat building tools" and expertise with critical modeling. I only have trouble with your description of your shop being
too hot. . .there is a wind storm here, cold temps, and the wind blows the big rain drops inside
your ears it you are out in it.

For your motor choice, I haven't heard of judging an electric motor's abilities based on RPM's here
on the Forum. For myself, I go by the 450 to 900 standard. That is, and I hope the real motor
members will not laugh at me here, 450 horse power to 900 horse power. . .for a big tug I always
choose, with the exception of the "bow thrusters", a 900.

I recommend your design and place your motor mounts, battery boxes, and steering gear provisions
into your keel and framing before you place the hull with the beautiful cedar you are using.

Excellent work Doonie,
Michael



: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 19, 2017, 16:57:14
Thanks Michael. I've figured the ship to be about 16.66 metres long so that makes my model about 1:13.3. I'll use the motor I have and see what happens. I'm designing the plate that holds the motor and pulley reduction system so that it is adjustable for tension and also can have parts replaced easily. The body part of the motor is 63 mm long by 42 ish mm in diameter. Pretty sure it's out of a Hitachi 18 v drill that blew up a gear box. Can anybody suggest a bow thruster for this thing. I'd like to place it before planking begins.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: des November 19, 2017, 18:46:46
Hi Doonie

You've had me intrigued now for a few days.  Whereabouts are you located in Oz - I'm in Adelaide, and we've had a few warm days now, and it's not even summer yet.  I'm at the stage where I'm getting more work done in the evenings than during the day - there's nothing worthwhile on the box anyway.

Your estimate of 16.7 m is close - the plans indicate 16.22 m, or about 53 feet overall.  For a model of 1245 mm overall length I think you're going to need a prop of around 95 - 100 mm diameter;  a suitable kort nozzle would have an internal diameter 3 mm greater than your prop, and would have a wall thickness of 5 - 8 mm.  Do you have enough space for a nozzle this size?

For a bow thruster I'd suggest a Graupner 35 mm unit - this has a prop diameter of 35 mm, with 2x 4 bladed props in the tunnel.  The motor is only 7.6 Volts, but your ESC should be able to knock your battery voltage down to 7.6 V.  (I've used this thruster on a model 1105 mm OAL, and had to knock the voltage down to 5V, so it should be okay on your bigger model.)

Des.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 19, 2017, 19:13:17
Excellent work Des. South East Gippsland. Anything over 30 is too hot to work in the shed and it gets to thirty early. I use this time to run backwards to the laser testing things for the motor/pulley mount I'm designing. It'll be a double reduction with adjustments here and there. I can fit a 100 mm Kort in just noice. I had no idea what size thruster to use but now I do so I'll get on to the netty thing and find one. I reckon I'll need a power board, might make one cos I haven't done that before. Can't be that hard can it? I'll want a smoker and a sound module. I already have the sound module. I set it up so that I can shift it around from boat to boat. Probably put a few lights and maybe a winch. Found this on the web 1/10 scale, so close, and it works. Should be able to hook it up to RC somehow.
Cheers

Doonie.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 20, 2017, 19:33:14
Nuther hot day but I have managed to back and forth to the shed over the last cubbla days lasering away on the reduction drive. Most of the bits are cut and the missus has gone to get some bolts and some bearings. Pricey little suckers, them bearings. 16 mm od by 5 mm id by 5 mm thick at 15$ au each for seven. Probably cheaper to buy a geared motor but they are sooo noisy. I found a 240 ac to 12 volt dc transformer tucked away in a corner and the missus is picking up a 10 to 1.5 reducer for me right now so that will be another liddle project so I can test stuff without stuffing around with batteries and bits of wire. Also when I cark it, somebody will get some really good stuff. Make sure, when you cark it, you have one of your mates  make sure your missus doesn't sell your stuff for what you told her you paid for it.
I'll post some pics when I get the jig saw puzzle all lined up.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 21, 2017, 17:01:30
I got a bit more done before it got too hot.
Pic 1. The drive system jigsaw.
Pic 2. Gluing up the nut towers.
Pic 3. Top and bottom plates looking at the underside of them with most of the nut towers in place. the one on the left is glued into the hull and the other locates on it and is bolted to it so that I can remove it for repair or alteration.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 21, 2017, 17:25:38
Pic 4. Upside down, showing how the top late locates in the bottom plate.
Pic 5. Motor mount under construction.
Pic 6. Main drive to prop towers under construction
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 21, 2017, 17:26:55
pic 7. Bearing towers.
I'll be back.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 21, 2017, 19:47:19
Bits in for fitting and testing purposes. Must say I was pleased when the prop shaft slid perfectly through the two bearings in the final drive unit. A tiny bit of fitting in the prop shaft space in the hull with a file then a ton of araldite will see the whole thing snugged away. And I had just enough prop shaft left over for the final drive to the Kort. Now to try and figure out how many revs that motor does on 12 volts. The prop I'm saving up for is a RH five blade bronze jobbie with the Kort that applies. Pitch is 5.1 whatever that means? Any body want to assist with the sizes of the pulleys and can I use O rings as the belt"As you can see, I have adjustment built in to each of the pulley thingies.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: model tugman November 22, 2017, 00:21:14
Proper job Donnie nice.  Geo.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 22, 2017, 00:58:57
Ta mate. Keeps my old brain alive. ;D
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: sea monkey November 22, 2017, 11:37:05
Good use of the laser.
Is it straightforward to use? Not the drawing part just the actual laser cutting.
What thickness can it cut, and what is the bed size?
I'm tempted to splash out.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: vk2dj November 22, 2017, 12:47:29
G'day Donnie with regards controlling your motor speed have a look at the range of Sabertooth controllers they are used robotics I have used  the 32a per channel model they
can be controlled directly from your R/C a couple of other chaps in our club have also used them their small & don't generate heat the work at a higher frequency than most other controllers &I therefore you don't get the motor whine you normally get with other controllers I will dig out the info & PM you the details also I have researching Laser cutters have a couple questions
Gary
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 22, 2017, 13:18:25
Good use of the laser.
Is it straightforward to use? Not the drawing part just the actual laser cutting.
What thickness can it cut, and what is the bed size?
I'm tempted to splash out.
Once you get into a routine, it is straight forward but they do have glitches from time to time and you will need to overcome them. Once again you will get into a glitch routine and all is well. For example, I have found that there are less glitches if I tell it to cut fewer parts at a time, rather than everything on the board. Mine cuts 4 mm lite ply with five passes. That means I could cut 3 mm ply with 3 or 4 passes. I get 4 mm ply for free so I mostly use that. It won'
 t cut through ply that has black glue in it. Dunno why. It cuts MDF nice. It does cut other stuff but mostly organic, leather paper cardboard etc. You can think outside the square to achieve your ends. For example, I wanted an 8 mm keel so I cut two and glued them together. Mine cuts up to A3. The board being cut needs to be flat so I have lead weights I move all over the place to keep the centre down. I have a 10 mm aluminium base plate I made with threaded holes around the outside and big flat washers to hold the edges down. I used to use double sided sticky tape. I also used to have a piece of white melamine chip board as the base. Just buy a piece of 400 mm shelving, cut a few bits to length and use both sides. The base gets pretty chewed up with all the cutting. As it is, the aluminium gets a sticky residue on it and I need to clean it every couple of weeks. Happy to help anybody if they want to go down that path.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 22, 2017, 13:21:04
G'day Gary. Thanks for the reply. I await the PM. I think I used a Sabretooth controller in the Paddle steamer so that I could get bulldozer steering with the paddles.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 22, 2017, 17:52:32
I think this angle trimmer for planks will work, but with a much finer blade.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie November 27, 2017, 20:11:45
Planks done. 50 ought to be enough methinks.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: doonie December 06, 2017, 18:04:27
Got some planking done but have been waiting for bow thruster before going too far. Bow thruster (Raboesch 108-20 7.2 v ) has arrived. I have never fitted one. Any hints, tips and photographs would be much appreciated. Does it have it's own speed controller. If yes, any suggestions? Should I wire it up as it's own entity with switch battery etc?

Cheers

Doonie.
: Re: Damn!. Not another Klimek.
: des December 06, 2017, 23:31:11
G'day Doonie

Yes, you'll need an ESC for your bow thruster.  The unit I have used is an ACTion Electronics P93 from Component Shop in UK - there is usually an ad for them on the sidebar of this web page.

The P93 has about 20 different modes that you can use.  You can set it up as a standard ESC, but with output voltage limited to 12V, 7.6V or 5V;  it provides a reversible output so the thruster works in either direction.  You will need a separate radio channel to control it - the side-to-side movement on one of the variable control levers on your transmitter will do the job.

Des.