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Author Topic: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch  (Read 1948 times)

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tugs53

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Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« on: October 22, 2008, 02:48:41 »
Here's a question I've been wrestling with for a while here:
If my 'Seaspan Royal' has a double-drum' towing winch, mounted aft, it would mean that I'm towing just off center, in this case from the stbd side.
How does one off-set the boats tendency to 'side-step' to stbd??

I know that the 'real' tugs use towing 'pins' to keep the towline at center while underway, but this could be difficult on a model.

Any ideas anyone??

Oh, the joys of building to scale!!!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 03:02:55 by tugs53 »
MIKE http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/compgame/m03104.gif

manxman

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 07:26:09 »
Hi Mike.

Go with the towing pins, I have them fitted to Pacific, and they work fine. You can remove them when not towing.
They are thick brass rods that slide into brass tubes, set into a wooden block under the deck.


Cheers - Ken
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 07:28:55 by manxman »
No matter which way you throw me - I'll always stand.

poll

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 21:22:57 »
Hi Mike, Just to get the feel of the "Seaspan Royal" Do you do towing with it?
If so what type of courses do you have?
Is there a bow thruster fitted?
Regards

John.

tugs53

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2008, 01:06:08 »
Hi John:
The model's not complete yet, but I just wanted some input as to towing with a double-drum towing winch, hoping that someone else has done some 'close-quarters' towing.
 assuming that I'm 'hooked-on' to something with a bow taller than my winch, side stepping should occur, yes?
With lots of line out, I can use 'pins' as Ken suggests.

Perhaps a large 'staple' on the aft deck huh??

I do have a bow thruster fitted, and at 150cm long she's a big model!!

Cheers
MIKE http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/compgame/m03104.gif

poll

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 21:01:30 »
Hi Mike, Have you looked at the Tito Neri idea and have the towing frame just
in front of the winch, this would keep the tow rope down the center of the tug.
That would free the sturn to swing.
Or you could go for Ken's idea and use towing pins, Then you could use your port side winch drum for your gog rope and run the rope through the pins and use your gog as required. (Good idea John I think I'll do that) ;D
Regards

John.

tugs53

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2008, 14:25:26 »
Hi John:
Both ideas are very good!
Going to have to wait and see what happens during 'Sea Trials', at some point this winter.

Cheers
MIKE http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/compgame/m03104.gif

CaptainSeaspan

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 18:25:38 »
Mike in the real world when towing on a 2x drum the towline is still left in the middle of the drum and the tow pins/hold down gear is used............."in close 1/4 situations "the tow pins are never used.as with the winch on the SSRoyal/ Regent the wire will come out at around 7--8 ft off the deck due to the size of the winch so the pins wont work.........in the scale world the towline wont matter were it comes off the drum and I still wouldnt use pins or hold down gear on a model either..."side stepping" is minamal in real world               "Perhaps a large 'staple' on the aft deck huh??"all that will do is move the vessel pivot point futher aft which is all right to a point but using towpins is too far aft.........

catengineman

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 23:09:49 »
I agree with CaptainSeaspan on the last post the pins will only come into use at sea tows, though I have 'goged' off a tow line in close quarters, this was on a small Daman tug and it was ordered to tow stern first as a brake tug when working at Great Yarmouth Norfolk, the reason is easy when you work out that a brake tug is just that so you let the tow tug 'tow' until the pilot requests the brake tug to stop the way on the tow. Being towed stern first would normally cause some problems in control but goging the line down makes the vessel follow reasonably true and if it was not goged off the tug would just girt round.

At sea the tug tows the warp which runs over the stern roller into the sea the weight of the warp tows the "tow" the length of the warp and the shock line reduces the snatch caused by waves against the tow.

In handling the tow is short (normally never in the water) rising from the tug directly to the tow through a fairlead to a bollard to ease making fast quickly, the tug needs to be able to move around to control the tow through direct or indirect tow positioning.

Both jobs are very different and though some tugs are able to carry out both jobs it is generally segregated into sea tugs or harbour tugs

R,

tugs53

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2009, 17:29:08 »
Thanks for your input guys :) :)
I was just really curious as to the 'side-stepping' effect....but as it's a big, heavy model, it should behave itself.


...Cheers...
MIKE http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/compgame/m03104.gif

dms Toucan

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 20:43:51 »
Mike
I  have a video of Smits Damen tug towing of the foward double winch going in reverse but the rope to the towed vessel  is never in the middle but 2 to 3 mtrs either side of centre, also the 3111 ASD tugs and the 2810s have a large skeg which helps in reverse towing of the forward double winch.
Martin   

tugs53

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 21:09:18 »
Hi Martin:
That would be interesting to see, perhaps in the daimen ASD thread, as this model of mine is a deepsea 'line-haul' tug.

I'm sure the guys building ASD tugs would love to see it!!

...Cheers..
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 16:32:11 by tugs53 »
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CaptainSeaspan

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 20:08:37 »
Mike that pic you have there is the SS Regent,The walkway from the WHouse on the Royal goes aft further and the Royal had 2 full towlines as per the SS Commodore the Regent port drum is a pennant storage drum and the other split side is a rope pennant,the STBD drum is the only towline..................The Regent is a far better sea boat than the Commodore but when tandem towing to China the Commodore always goes for that reason only
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 20:14:02 by CaptainSeaspan »

tugs53

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Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 15:40:58 »
Thanks for that Capt. Seaspan.
I hear the 'Commodore' has much better 'creature comforts' as well.

...Cheers...
MIKE http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/compgame/m03104.gif

Tug Forum

Re: Towing with a 'double-drum' winch
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 15:40:58 »

 

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