Author Topic: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son  (Read 30452 times)

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Model Tug Man

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2013, 05:20:36 »
Coming along nicely.
VGJQ

Antipodes

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 03:48:53 »
I found these lovely Mantua Fittings portholes and aero-naut tyres.

Hi geapra,

Can you tell me where you got yhese fittings and tyres from?

Kind wish,

Bruce

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2013, 15:44:37 »
Hi Bruce.  The fittings are all from Cornwall Model Boats http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/
For us in Australia, they represent good value.

PS - sorry for the delayed reply,  I have been out of the country and away from communications.

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2013, 16:46:01 »
Another update.  While things have slowed due to the little un being at school, progress is still happening.  This time the window frames and hatches.

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2013, 16:47:55 »
And a few more photos

tugs53

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2013, 09:05:37 »
Coming along nicely!
 
Keep the pics and info coming.
MIKE

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2014, 17:46:55 »
After being distracted for some time undertaking a car restoration project, I am now able to return to the Bugsier build.

Before I begin again, I am after some advice.  I rigged up the Graupner Speed 600 motor (3x reduction gearbox) that came with the Bugsier and observed that it is rotating far too quickly (no load) to be suitable for a tugboat.  Looking at the product spec it would be spinning in the order of 6000rpm.  I assume this would slow considerably with the drag of water but in the order of 1000x??  Remember I am a novice to all of this.

Hence I am considering what motor would be suitable?  What no load RPM is suitable for a tugboat?
I have found that there are a number of electronic 12v motors available such as the one here http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YG2738. Can anyone recommend anything suitable?

BTW - I am using a J Perkins Marine Brushed ESC 5510135.  Continuous max rating is 50A.  Voltage range 7.2-12V

2tugboats

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2014, 19:49:30 »
Welcome back Geapra. You have been gone a while indeed and I'll bet that car restoration project
has created a fine looking car. . .now back to your fine looking tugboat build.

Keep the pictures coming,
Michael
Yet another case of why men and women go down to the sea in ships. . .A pleasure to be here and smell the salt air. Thank you Tugboat Forum. . .Michael in Anacortes, Washington www.twotugboats.com

CORONA

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2014, 11:32:44 »
Geapra,

Yes, 6000 rpm is too fast but not likely by more than a factor of about 2. 
Shoot for something around the 3000 RPM range in a brushed motor at your operating volgate
MFA Como has a motor/gear box combination that should work for you.
Double check the voltage you want to run before you order.
12 volt system and 6x reduction will get you there.
If you happen to have a computer radio that would let you adjust the end point on channel 3 then you could use the set up you have now and set the end point at 50% to get the 3000 RPM mentioned.
Nice build by the way !!

Laurn

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2014, 17:57:21 »
Thanks for those hints Laurn.  Really appreciated.

The radio system I have is a Turnigy 6 Channel.  Perhaps not the best for Tugs - but it is the one I already own.  https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=24901
I am not sure of its functionality - but I am assuming that it cannot reduce the end point by 50%.  Am I correct in my assumption - it is a digital proportional system

I should add that I am using a 3 bladed 60mm propeller and would prefer to use ~12v power. 
The battery that I already own is a 11.1v LIPO 5000mAh https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=9515

The Graupner Speed 600 motor that I have has a voltage range of 3.6-8.4v 18,200rpm (no-load max rpm) with a 3x reduction gearbox.  I am also wondering if I can use a potentiometer between the motor and the ESC to slow things down (or a suitable resister).  I presume if I use this approach that I will lose some power efficiency - but perhaps it would be good enough.



CORONA

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2014, 11:49:55 »
Geapra,

Hmmm....Firstly, - agreed your radio will not allow you to change the end points.  So that option is out.

Although technically your solution to reduce the voltage would work - practically is close to impossible to do.
The potentiometer or fixed resistor would have to be rated for the max. power ( wattage )  you would put through it to the motor, so the wattage rating would be off the charts, and would be half the size of your boat, and yes not efficient use of power at all. 
You have a bit of a mis-match there with voltage ratings between your battery, motor and your ESC, ( Battery rating of 11.1 V and max rating for your motor of 8.4 volts ) then throw in the rating of your ESC of between 7.2 & 12 volts..... They need to all be in the same voltage range.
I am thinking that you should probably change the battery & then either the ESC or the motor, - sorry to say.  I would recommend you go with a nice ( max. size for your hull ) size Gel Cell Battery ( Sealed Lead acid or SLA ) because you will need ballast to get the tug down in the water & of course a voltage source.  Not expensive, heavy, and easy to charge.  They are readily available in 6 volt and 12 volt in various AmpHr ratings. Going with 6 volt ( mounted low in the hull ) would help with your motor speed issue but would not work with the ESC you have.  So now you see where I am going with this.  The Viper product line I see is available to you by one of the site sponsors, Action also available, and there may be others available in Aussy land. Both of those would power your receiver off the main battery as well through the BEC circuit. Important that all the voltage rating match.  Motor should be "roughly" 3000 RPM at the voltage  rating of your battery.
Follow me on the logic ?
Laurn.



geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2014, 14:46:58 »
Thanks for that Laurn.  Really appreciated.  As a novice at this who inherited many of these components - I am expecting some miss steps.  It really shows the value of this forum.



CORONA

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2014, 09:44:14 »
Geapra,

No problem, glad to help.  I certainly stumbled around a bit with my first few systems.  :-[
It is hard to get everything going in the same direction early in the build.
Hopefully the info is timely and you can get some of the rating issues sorted now and arranged in the hull before getting too far ahead.

Further...... ::)
The speed of your motor will be proportional to the voltage, so if you go 6 volt - 6V/8.4V x 18,200RPM/3 = 4333 RPM
Still pretty quick but maybe manageable with a light touch on the control.
Not sure if you want to replace the motor too, ( $$$ racking up ) so leave room around the motor mounting to replace later if you find it too wild to control.

The SLA battery needs to be low in the hull since is so heavy - but will make it stable in the water.
Can't stress that enough.
Your other electronic bits location should be sorted before too long as well.
Access for connections and charging are important to think through.
Hopefully you can lay them out before putting the deck on.
I have checked your log and haven't seen a hull with deck installed, so hopefully.....

Cheers,
Laurn

geapra

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2014, 01:38:52 »
Again many thanks Laurn.  Really appreciated.

Thankfully the hull is not sealed or anything like that.  All that is installed is the stern post, rugger and anchor tube - so I have full access - and no immediate plans to seal it up at this stage. 

I hunted around some of my other bits and pieces and found a large looking RS-755SH motor that was given to me some years ago.  I do not know its specs.  But I did try it on my 7.2-12v ESC and 11.1v battery.  It spins a lot slower than the Graupner motor - but I cannot tell if it is too slow or indeed if it is suitable for a tug.  I could not stop the shaft with my fingers to measure stall current either - it is strong!  Pictures attached.  I am looking to see if I have an old tape deck counter to work out rpm....  (I cannot find one in my bags of spares yet)

PS - I have attached some pictures of the motor to get some opinions. tested my LIPO battery on my multi-meter - it read as 11.4V output. 

PPS - I also tried an old potentiometer I have laying around - it lit up like a light globe and made lots of smoke :  )  Predictable, given your warning. :)

« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 01:48:08 by geapra »

CORONA

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Re: Graupner Bugsier 3 build by a novice and son
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2014, 19:03:48 »
Geapra,

I tossed it into Google and look what popped out.

http://kinmore.en.alibaba.com/product/409492267-4/DC_Motor_RS_755SH_With_45_59_Housing_for_Robotic_Lawn_Mower_Food_Machine_Cordless_Tools.html

Rated 24 volts - might do it at some lower voltage.

Laurn