Author Topic: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added  (Read 15020 times)

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model tugman

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2014, 07:07:53 »
Hi Andy it looks as though you have just followed the original waterline but only 10 mm higher all along,looking at your second picture your marker should be 10 mm or so below the bottom of the wash port or deck level,it looks a lot lower than that.
Tugs are for life      George B

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2014, 11:34:05 »
Geo,

I must be getting confused here, one message said to mark up from the existing bow line by 10mm and 10mm below the deck line at the stern end.

So am I measuring 10-15mm from the deck on the bow? The line at the stern IS 10mm below the stern deck line.

Sorry if I misunderstood please clarify.

Andy
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

model tugman

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #107 on: July 19, 2014, 12:03:01 »
Looking at your photo's the bow is correct But looking at photo No 2 the mark you have looks to be 10mm above the original not 10mm below the deck at the rearmost wash port, because when in the water the line will be straight not curved.  the best thing you can do is put it in the water and add ballast  , until she floats on the new bow mark and the water level aft is 10mm or so below the deck level at the back .   Dont forget to factor in the weight of the top.   Geo
Tugs are for life      George B

des

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #108 on: July 19, 2014, 23:22:03 »
Hi Andy

I'm on line again for a few days.  It looks like you're getting lots of advice about how to establish a new waterline for your boat.  I must admit that I'm having some difficulty myself getting a clear picture from all of the advice you've been getting.  Also, I have to admit that I had previously assumed, like you, that the waterline was basically correct where it was.

First of all, you should remember that the line where the hull paint changes colour is usually parallel to the water, although not necessarily coincident with the water line itself (ie, where the boat actually floats).  It may or may not coincide with any Plimsoll markings on the hull (if your boat has such markings).  This all assumes still water, and with the boat in correct trim  (including superstructure and all other upperworks in place).  The keel of the boat may or may not be parallel to the water level, depending on the original designer's intention - but if not, then it will be deeper at the stern - never deeper at the bow.

From my experience, most harbour tugs have about 2 ft (600 mm or so) of freeboard along the relatively flat part of the aft deck;  rarely more than 3 ft (900 mm or so);  sometimes less than 600 mm.  (I am basing this on a boat of about 90 - 100 ft overall length;  smaller boats will obviously have less freeboard.)  If there is any sheer (rise in deck level towards the bow, relative to the water), this is usually by means of a visible  upward curve in the deck - not by sloping the whole deck upwards.  You will know by looking at your model whether the deck should be flat or not - door openings always have vertical edges, not at right angles to a sloping deck;  so use this as a visual cue.

On your Zeeland, 1/35 scale, 600 mm freeboard scales out at 17 mm;  up to 20 mm freeboard would probably be okay.  If the deck does in fact rise towards the bow then the foredeck will be considerably higher above the water - even double or more.

Hope this helps you establish a new waterline.

Of course, no matter what you do, if you put the boat on the water and run it, and the bow wave comes over the bow, then you'll have to do it all again.  I'd probably try to get the weight distribution right first, then test the boat on the water before repainting the hull with any new waterline.

Good luck.

Des.

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2014, 04:20:34 »

If you look at the side of the boat from the underside of the nudging nose to the start of the water vents and the from the vents to the stern there is a slight line ridge that runs from bow to stern where the deck floor is and this rises up to where the bulwarks are.

I can't tell if the deck is sloping or not, the bow bulwarks are higher.

Looking at the line I mentioned above and following it by eye along the hull, it looks as though it does get a little higher towards the bow.
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

tbone

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #110 on: July 20, 2014, 09:41:28 »
I think Des has good advice. Get the boat in the water and ballast it down close to the rear deck line and see how stable it gets. At least then you'll know that your efforts will pay off in the end.

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2014, 03:09:22 »
Yep, Des always manages to keep my feet on the ground ;o)

I've run out of lead for ballast so I'm just waiting for a crucible, tongs and ingot moulds and bits to cast my own weights. All of the existing lead has gone into the bow so the stern is sitting way too high at the moment so once I have enough ballast in her to get her down to around 10mm below deck level I will report back.
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

Model Tug Man

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2014, 03:38:07 »
You have your battery in her when you are doing this, right???
VGJQ

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2014, 10:38:01 »
Oh yes! That's why I wanted to use the gel cell for its weight/ballast contribution,lol.  :)
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #114 on: August 01, 2014, 08:18:19 »
Hi Guys,

Had a few days away from the boat as it was doing my head in, coupled with the hot temperatures of late, I came close to drop kicking it down the Close where I live,lol.

Anyway, enough of all that negativity, I have just put a temporary new waterline on her according to the general concensus of opinion, 10mm approx. below the deck line, there are some images below showing this, as it approaches the stern the deck floor is right where the stern sits in the water which is why I have run the line around the back of the stern, is this correct?

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Andy
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

Model Tug Man

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2014, 06:38:21 »
I am willing to bet that she will be much more stable at her new marks.
VGJQ

freightliner009

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2014, 07:17:32 »
Hi MTM,

You don't think it's a bit high at the bow end do you? When I look at tugs they're low at the back and high at the front, sort of curving upwards from back to front. Someone on here said the waterline should be a straight line so that's how I've pout the temporary one but when I look at the side it doesn't give that 'bowed/bent up look' if you know what I mean?
Proud  father of a new Hobby Engine 1/35 scale Southampton tug and 1/24 scale hand crafted Zeeland tug

Calimero

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2014, 07:40:28 »
It's hard to judge on close shots, especially on a complex shape like a boat hull.

I suggest you put the tug on its stand on a table. Adjust it so that the new waterline is horizontal (parallel to the table). Use a ruler to make sure the distance from waterline to table is the same at the bow and the stern.

Then take a few steps back and snap a picture with you camera at the same level as the waterline.

model tugman

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2014, 11:17:19 »
 ^-^ Andy  this is how I have put the waterline on my little 850mm long tug it is a straight line give or take a few wobbly bits I just set her up as Calimero said in his post and marked around it.   Geo
Tugs are for life      George B

des

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Re: Oh God I Need Help! - Images Added
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2014, 17:49:12 »
G'day Andy

Here's a photo that will illustrate why you probably shouldn't get too hung up about getting the "waterline" right on your Zeeland.

The photo is of the tug WARREN, at Port Adelaide in 2006.  You will see that the sheer of the main deck is quite obvious, resulting in the bow being much higher out of the water than the stern deck area.  Also, note that the boat is floating with the change in paint colour being much higher than the level at which she is floating.  You can also see that her plimsoll markings are higher again, on the black colour.  I have photos of other tugs where the plimsoll line is below or on the paint colour change.

The point I am making, is that where you change the colour of your hull paints can be quite arbitrary, unless you are trying to strictly model a particular prototype - and then you need good photos of the original.  The only constant is that the colour change line should be parallel to the water.

In deciding about what angle, fore and aft, that your boat should sit in the water, there are a number of visual cues that you can use to help get it right.  The keel may or may not be parallel with the water, so you can't just sit it flat on the work bench and mark around the hull.  But you can see that the wheelhouse door edges and upperdeck access ladders should be vertical.  Even the mooring bitts in the bow are vertical, and not at right angles to the sloping deck.  So you need to adjust the height of the bow of your model until these features appear "right".  (If the keel is not parallel to the water, then the bow should always be higher than the stern - not the other way around.)  Once you have the boat sitting in a support frame of some sort, and at the "correct" visual angle fore and aft, then you can mark your paint colour line at almost any height you want.

I wouldn't get hung up about any of this though, until you know where the boat actually floats, and is stable in the water.  I've only posted this now because I've just found this photo while I was doing something else.

Des